Molécules marines, médicaments de demain ?
Avec les Docteurs: Jean Vacelet, Thierry Perez, Pierre chevaldonné, Ali All Mourabit.
Images: Philippe Lallet
Images sous-marines: Christian Petron
Son: Alain Barnault
Montage: Laurence Buchmann
Commentaire: Béatrice Berge
Réalisation: Philippe Lallet
Photos: Thierry Perez
JEAN VACELET
Docteur émérite CNRS
Cher Philippe,
Un petit mot pour te signaler que l’émission sur la chimie des éponges a eu beaucoup de succès dans mon entourage, et auprès des gens que j’avais prévenu (pas beaucoup….) et aussi d’autres qui ont regardé ce Thalassa un peu par hasard, mais qui m’ont ensuite contacté pour m’en dire le plus grand bien. Ça a été même une excellente occasion de reprendre contact avec des gens que j’avais perdu de vue depuis des années. Bien sûr, les acteurs étaient remarquables ;-), mais le réalisateur y est pour quelque chose aussi!
Merci,
Janus
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THIERRY PEREZ
Directeur de recherche CNRS à l’IMBE dans l’équipe Diversité et Fonctionnement des molécules aux écosystèmes.
Thierry Pérez ,
Parlez-nous de votre environnement professionnel…
Notre objectif général est d’étudier les effets des changements globaux sur la biodiversité méditerranéenne à différents niveaux d’intégration biologique : molécules, organismes, populations et écosystèmes. De manière plus précise, il s’agit de comprendre et éventuellement d’anticiper les réponses biologiques aux stress liés aux changements climatiques ou à l’anthropisation des milieux naturels : événements climatiques extrêmes, invasions biologiques et fragmentation des habitats. Notre approche est interdisciplinaire et appliquée à la biodiversité marine et continentale du bassin méditerranéen.
Je travaille plus particulièrement sur la biodiversité marine, en Méditerranée mais aussi en zone tropicale, avec un focus sur les communautés benthiques de substrats durs ombragés ou parfois très obscurs (grottes sous-marines). Ces dernières années, j’ai développé des approches d’écologie chimique de manière à mieux comprendre les mécanismes à l’origine de la biodiversité et de la chimiodiversité (métabolites secondaires) marine. En collaboration avec des collègues chimistes des produits naturels, je mets actuellement en place un plateau de métabolomique dédié à l’écologie et j’entends promouvoir l’emploi de cette approche novatrice en taxonomie intégrative (appliquée aux éponges, mes modèles depuis le début de ma carrière) et pour étudier les rôles des métabolites secondaires dans la structuration et le fonctionnement de la biodiversité. Avec la métabolomique environnementale, à savoir l’utilisation de la diversité chimique (ou métabolome) d’un organisme, on peut aussi identifier des biomarqueurs d’effet des changements environnementaux.
Quel cursus universitaire (autre) avez-vous suivi ?
J’ai effectué toutes mes études à Marseille. J’ai réalisé une licence de biologie des organismes et populations à la faculté des sciences de St Jérôme, une formation qui était à l’époque fortement “iodée”. Dès mon premier jour de licence, j’ai donc orienté mes études vers le marin, au départ en choisissant les options proposées par des biologistes marins. J’ai ensuite opéré une grande migration (pour un marseillais des quartiers nord) vers Luminy pour m’inscrire en maitrise, puis en DEA d’océanographie. Cela a été le pied pendant ces deux années d’apprentissage théorique et pratique de tous les fondamentaux de l’océanographie biologique, chimique et même physique. Les cours et les travaux pratiques étaient alternativement à la Luminy et à la Station Marine d’Endoume, ce qui donnait la possibilité de côtoyer de nombreux chercheurs. J’ai pu ainsi réaliser mes premiers stages, participer à mes premières études et rédiger ma première publication à la fin de mon DEA. Trois années se sont écoulées entre la fin de mon DEA et le démarrage de ma thèse, service militaire, recherche de bourse, petits contrats… puis j’ai réalisé ma thèse en trois ans. A l’issue de ma thèse, j’ai fait de l’enseignement à l’Université, j’ai été ATER à temps plein pendant deux années, puis j’ai obtenu une bourse Marie Curie pour un post-doc à l’étranger. Dans le même temps, j’allais à quelques concours pour des postes de maitre de conférences, mais c’est le CNRS qui m’a retenu lors de ma première candidature.
Pourquoi avez-vous choisi de devenir chercheur ?
Au départ, la passion pour la mer et les hommes de mer. Exercer ce métier, vivre de ma passion pour la mer était un rêve que je ne croyais pas possible au début de mes études. Puis, la recherche du plaisir et de son intensité est devenue le fondement de mes activités. Le plaisir d’apprendre, de construire, de réaliser, d’explorer, de transmettre ma passion aux autres. J’ai eu la chance de rencontrer très tôt au cours de mon cursus et d’être façonné par des chercheurs qui ont la même passion et la même philosophie, des chercheurs que je considère encore comme mes maîtres et dont la curiosité scientifique ne se calcifie pas. A la Station Marine d’Endoume où j’ai été formé, ma grande chance a été d’être très rapidement considéré comme un collaborateur à part entière, encouragé à gagner mon autonomie, à défendre mes idées et à bâtir mes propres programmes de recherche. Alors que je n’étais qu’un étudiant, je recevais un soutien sans faille des responsables du laboratoire et de mes encadrants pour construire mon projet de thèse. Cela a pris du temps, mais cela a été extrêmement formateur. Ensuite, à la fin d’une thèse, il faut beaucoup de chance pour enchainer et pour réussir à intégrer le monde de la recherche académique. J’aurais pu prendre plusieurs autres chemins sans trop de difficultés compte tenu de tout le plaisir que j’avais déjà pris, mais par bonheur j’ai été relativement rapidement recruté au CNRS.
Qu’aimez-vous dans la science ?
La liberté de satisfaire ma curiosité et de pouvoir sans cesse réaliser de nouvelles idées ou de nouveaux projets. J’ai le privilège d’œuvrer dans un domaine, la biologie et l’écologie marine,dans lequel il est encore possible de réaliser de vraies découvertes. J’aime le regain d’intérêt pour les études de la biodiversité marine, les explorations d’environnements mal connus et l’identification d’espèces nouvelles pour la science. C’est ma spécialisation pour un groupe d’organismes que l’on trouve dans toutes les mers du monde, les éponges, qui me conduit à contribuer à des explorations naturalistes visant à mieux connaître la biodiversité marine, identifier de nouvelles espèces et éventuellement de nouvelles ressources biologiques pour les sociétés humaines. J’ai eu la chance de pénétrer dans des environnements, de plonger dans des grottes sous-marines par exemple, que seule une petite poignée d’humains a pu approcher, et ainsi de toucher des espèces rares, parfois connues d’une seule localité dans le monde. Récemment, cela a été le cas par exemple dans les lavatubes des Iles Marquises en plongée en scaphandre autonome, ou encore dans les Canyons sous-marins de Méditerranée en sous-marin. J’aime aussi l’idée que ma recherche puisse servir la société. C’est ainsi que j’ai travaillé au début de ma carrière sur les éponges comme bioindicateurs de la qualité du milieu marin en relation avec plusieurs organismes en charge de la “gestion” de l’environnement, et qu’aujourd’hui je construis tout mes programmes en collaboration avec des chimistes des produits naturels marins. Ensemble, nous essayons de décrire également la chimio-diversité marine, en essayant de mieux comprendre comment s’exprime et varie cette composante de la biodiversité et de mettre au point des procédés de valorisation “durable” des ressources biologiques marines.
Que faites-vous au quotidien ?
Il n’y a pas vraiment de journée type. Je peux passer des journées entières à ne faire que de l’administration de la recherche, écrire des projets, demander des bourses, participer à des réunions, écrire des rapports d’activités, etc. ce qui est bien évidemment la partie la moins excitante de mon métier, mais également celle qui peut conduire à une certaine liberté. Je peux également passer des journées entières, plusieurs semaines à la suite parfois, sur le terrain, embarqué sur un bateau pour effectuer deux plongées par jour, une le matin l’autre l’après midi, avec de longues sessions d’observations et de conditionnements d’échantillons récoltés en plongée et de saisis de données brutes. Lorsque je ne suis pas dans un de ces cas extrêmes, ma journée peut alors comporter une plongée tôt dans la matinée pour échantillonner ou effectuer des relevés sur le terrain, puis une séance de pré-traitement des données au retour au laboratoire, puis une séance de travail avec l’un de mes étudiants, pour des analyses au laboratoire, des traitements de données ou la rédaction d’un manuscrit, et…. beaucoup beaucoup beaucoup de messagerie électronique 🙂
JPEG
Quels sont vos projets de recherche pour 2014 ?
La fin de l’année 2013 et l’année 2014 vont être riches. Nouveaux projets de recherche et nouveaux étudiants. En décembre 2013, je serai à la Martinique pour une école thématique sur la biodiversité des éponges de la Caraïbe dont je suis l’organisateur. A la suite de cette formation, je réunirai mes collaborateurs d’un nouveau Laboratoire International Associé franco-brésilien nommé MARRIO. Notre objectif pour les quatre années à venir est d’étudier les patrons de biodiversité et de chimiodiversité des éponges depuis Rio de Janeiro jusqu’au nord de la Caraïbe. Nous réaliserons plusieurs campagnes d’échantillonnages dans les grottes sous-marines et sur les monts sous-marins de cette région, et nous organiserons la mobilité de nos doctorants et post-doctorants. D’autres programmes de recherche vont m’amener à mettre en place dans mon laboratoire un plateau de métabolomique dédié à l’écologie chimique. Cet investissement important pour l’IMBE et Pythéas va être réalisé grâce au soutien de la Région PACA et du CNRS (projet MALLABAR) et va nous permettre de faire des progrès très significatifs dans notre discipline. Nous emploierons la métabolomique pour réaliser une taxonomie intégrative (couplage taxonomie traditionnelle, barcoding et profilage métabolomique), qui est aujourd’hui l’approche la plus rigoureuse en Systématique, pour notamment résoudre des complexes d’espèces, soutenir des hypothèses phylogénétiques ou encore répondre à des questions d’écologie évolutive. La taxonomie intégrative est le thème central du LIA MARRIO et sera également le cœur d’une thèse qui démarre actuellement sur le succès évolutif dans les grottes sous-marines d’un groupe particulier d’éponges. La métabolomique va également permettre de déterminer le rôle des métabolites secondaires produits par les organismes fixés (les éponges notamment) dans la structuration et le fonctionnement des écosystèmes benthiques. On va chercher en particulier à comprendre quels sont les processus allélopathiques au sein des communautés benthiques. Ainsi, après avoir caractérisé et enregistré en base de données les signatures métabolomiques d’un grand nombre d’espèces dans mes précédents programmes, on va essayer de caractériser le signal métabolomique d’une communauté benthique, et déterminer si ce « bouquet odorant » peut conditionner une biodiversité associée d’invertébrés mobiles, et si un changement de biodiversité (e.g. extinction locale, introduction biologique) peut affecter la signature métabolomique de la communauté et son fonctionnement global.
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